How A Surprisingly Simple Patch Could Revolutionize Respiratory Care

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Futurist Society, where, as always, we are talking in the present, but talking about the future. Today we have Sharon Samjitsingh, who is the CEO of a healthcare company called Healthcare Originals.It's doing some pretty interesting things in the health care space.Sharon, tell us a little bit about what you're doing, because I'm in the health care space also, and I was very interested to talk to you because wearables is something that I think that is going to be a big thing and I know that's something that you're pioneering. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing.

Well, first, thank you very much for having me here.I really like the slant of your podcast where we think about the future, but also being optimistic about the future and the interweaving of technology in our lives and as it pertains to health care, what we do is we are really reimagining what we can learn from the body by listening to deep organ sounds.And so what, that sounds very fairy tale or high science, but really what we're doing is we're listening to the sounds of organs in real time and interpreting what they mean.And, and our first application really is in helping people with chronic respiratory disease, specifically asthma and copd, where we've pioneered a wearable device like you mentioned, that is actually going to be. Well, it is the first of its kind to listen to deep organ sounds in real time and in real life.And what studies at the University of Rochester has shown is that if we listen to these deep organ sounds, we can actually predict things like asthma attacks up to three months in advance. So very futuristic, not only in application, but really in terms of what we're able to do for prediction.

So how do you wear it? Where is it located when you're actually wearing it?

Yeah, so this is, it's interesting because unlike most things that are worn on the wrist and therefore can't listen to deep organ sounds, this is worn on the upper torso, front, side or back. It doesn't matter where you place it, below the neck, above the stomach, and it's worn hidden under the clothing. So you stick it on like a patch.It's very soft, pliable, comfortable, and nobody has to know that you're monitoring a condition. And it's all between you and your wearable.

So explain to me how you got to the minimum viable product because I feel like that's the most interesting part for me. When you're in a startup space and you know, kudos to you.I was looking at your, your funding and you know, you have millions of dollars of funding that's coming in from, you know, different sources. And you know, that's, to me, I feel like the part that I just don't understand.Like I understand like when you have a product, when you have marketing and stuff like that, but how did you go from zero to one?

Great question.And so I will say we started with a vision and a great principle out of the University of Rochester where the core thesis was proven that if you live listen to abnormal lung sounds, you could actually predict asthma utilization. But then I'd have to say this is where the strength of a team comes in.Because my amazing co founder and our chief technical officer, they were together able to come up with literally a prototype that was like this big very crap, like the actual bare bones processing electronics within a year. So we bootstrapped until we got to that very, very inelegant proof of concept.After which time we were able to like start demonstrating it to people and show, hey, there was an ability to capture these abnormal lung sounds and most importantly continue to do it. Because one of the technical hurdles that they overcame, which a lot of people have not been able to, is really understanding how to manage power.Well, it's not audio. If you have ever tried to do recordings on your phone, you know, it runs down your battery really, really quickly.So thinking about how you're constantly searching for deep organ sounds, listening to it interpreter, it actually was a huge power drain.So they were able to prove not only that they could continue to detect abnormal lung sounds, but also do it in a way that allowed long battery life far beyond anything anybody else had been able to do. So I would say for us it was strong belief and a great technical team, including my co founder, who I say is an understated genius.

So I mean it's awesome that you're, you're, you're able to do those things.I feel like from just from a more practical perspective, when someone has an idea in healthcare and like this person that had been researching and wanted to take that to market, like, how do you, when you say bootstrapping, I know that the colloquial term for that is like you're trying to keep costs down, you're really doing it with like a handful of people. But explain that to somebody who may be trying this out. By him, herself or herself.You know, you obviously have to get some sort of funding, right, like to make your, your minimum viable product. And then, and then, you know, even to that, like, are, are you, are you working a day job? What is, what is the actual situation for you?

Yes. Oh, so that. So great question. So bootstrapping in the context in which I used it was.We really funded it ourselves until we got to that first minimum viable product.And we were grad students when we discovered the technology and this research at the University of Rochester and we actually won a business plan competition and that is what we used to get all of that on the ground running. So there are creative ways.There are lots of business plan competitions for people who have ideas and can then develop the confidence to pitch, get some coaching. There are lots of accelerators who give you free coaching to get you where you need to be from idea to prototype.We were fortunate that we won a business plan competition. I had had a very successful career before that, as had my co founder. So we were not perhaps as strapped for cash as most people would be.But really, when you're thinking about going from 0 to 1, there are alternatives out there, lots of accelerators, lots of people who help you get where you need to be and pitch plan competitions, which can be both a great way to get practice as well as get the word out and go there. And we didn't take a lot of people. When you're building a hardware company like we were, it's really cliche. But hardware is hard, right?Harder than most. It's not software where you can fix things multiple times over.So what we were able to prove by the proof of concept was the proof point that we needed to get early investors on board. We did not get anybody on board before that. So everything that we did had to come from.

Well, I'm a big fan of wearables. I'm wearing the lingo right now to, to test, to test my blood glucose.And I wonder, like, is there going to be applications for this outside of people who have copd, asthma, things like that?

Yes. We view this as really a platform technology where you're able to now interpret all of those lung sounds.Sorry, all of those sounds of deep organs that you couldn't before. Nobody's ever really done this. So beyond the lungs, there are many things that make sounds in our bodies. The heart as obvious, the stomach.Nobody really knows what that stomach gurgle really means. Right. And then you think about joints.When you have a knee or hip replacement, they slap a stethoscope on your knee or hip to figure out if things are moving. Well, what we see this as is really democratization of access, which I think is a great thing that technology should be focused on.The way I say it is, the science of the sound of our organs hasn't been explored. We've done electrical signals to death, but we don't know the sound of the organs. But it does not depend on race, ethnicity, gender or zip code.It really is something that is unique to you.And when we think about all of the things we're learning about how medicine needs to be defined for the individual, our paradigms need to be shifted and aligned to the individual. I think this is a unique opportunity to do it in a non invasive way. And that's really what we have our eyes on.We're very focused on what we're doing in our beachhead market. But really that interpretation of organ sounds so that we democratize access and help people personalize their care is really what we're focused on.

Do you think that that has seeped into medicine at large? I know you've, you've worked in health care for a while now.I feel like it's still, it's still beholden to a lot of this algorithmic thinking where everybody's kind of put into this algorithm to maximize benefit. And it's really only the health performance space where people are doing individualized treatments.And I don't think that's really made that jump yet. Do you see that also?

Yeah, I see. For the mainstream, definitely. But I've forgotten the article, the name of the article.Now, I apologize, but there was a study that was done on blood pressure medication that showed that when you aligned it to the individual instead of following the dose response curve, that they showed tremendous success in managing blood pressure by individualizing the dosage as opposed to the standard. And two things I'd say on that is if you're a surgeon, so you understand how clinical trials are done and how dosages are arrived at. Right.They take the dose that works for 95% of the people, which means that 50% of the people could have done with a lower dose, but they don't. So this is not bashing anybody. Everybody is doing the best they can with the tools they have at the time. Right.But when you think about the fact that maybe a lot of people could get by on lower doses of medicine and only a few need higher than the standard, I think you're exactly right. There is a lot of room to explore there. Somebody has to be brave enough to do it and willing to do it in a systematic and controlled manner.The second thing I will say is that that's been my personal experience. Every single time that somebody has said to me, you need to be taking this much medicine.I've gotten terrible side effects and I've had to take less, and it's very effective. So most of my health, my health care insight, I am not, I don't fit any of the typical norms for which medicines are prescribed.So that, to me has given me a lot of insight as well.And I, I believe that's where we need to go, because the standard of care right now, it doesn't seem to, in terms of medication prescription doesn't seem to be working for a lot of people.

Yeah, I mean, I think that when I, when I look at this, like, the state of medicine right now, it's, it's very much like a, a gatekeeper to sensing, right, or sensors.You know, you go in, the doctor takes a look at you, they order a bunch of tests, and, you know, then you have this, this interpretation and then you get to the intervention stage, which I feel like that's something that I think that there should be some gatekeeping on, on that a little bit.But the sensing stage, I think is something that, you know, the more that I've, I've introduced measuring into my own life, how many steps that I'm taking, how many calories I'm burning, how, you know, now my glucose monitoring, and I'm not diabetic, I'm doing it just for, for personal health reasons.The, the more that I'm sensing, the more that I'm cognizant of it, to prevent those further interventions, you know, and I think that the, the idea that you're, that you're talking about, about, like, it being, you know, very individualized and very personalized, like, I just don't think that, like, doctors have enough time to really take into account all of the information.So that's where I think that if we can give all of that to the community at large and then you come in with all of your information and the doctor makes some sort of interpretation, I think that would be a huge benefit for medicine. I just, I don't see that happening per se.And I was wondering, you know, are you getting a lot of interest from, for people that have these respiratory conditions and, you know, what, what are they looking at it in regards to taking on that role of being the sensor themselves? Like, how are they looking to benefit from this?

I agree with you around gatekeeping and it seems to be a gatekeeping to sensor information, but also we still rely on a lot of spot sensor information. I think you can see the difference between your continuous glucose meter and taking a fingerprint twice a day. Right.Because as I tell people what we do with blood tests, does it reflect me as I live, work and play? And that's really what we're disrupting in respiratory care as well.The standard of care for respiratory measurement has been taking breath counts and breath data while people are seated and at rest. 20,000 breaths a day, but we think six while we are seated is enough.So that for me is the democratization that we need to place into the hands of, of the patient where they're able to access their sensor data.I think the flip side to that is that we also have to be very careful to couple that with self management education because otherwise we have a lot of worried, well, people walking around with a bunch of data that they google one thing, they see one spike and then it becomes just walking around with more data and more worry and all those kinds of things.So I think the sensible pairing of how you do that data collection with access as you talk about interpretation or a standard body of knowledge that helps people to interpret is key. Otherwise it's just, it is a recipe for cares. Not for someone who I believe like is an informed consumer like you are, but maybe others.And what we have seen in our space to the last question you asked was specifically there's huge demand for asthma and COPD solutions that actually work. Most people with these conditions will tell you that a lot of stuff doesn't work for them. So we see that drive.What we see is exactly what we see from practitioners is exactly what you talked about though. This is a lot of data. I don't have time.Even if we present very fancy reports for them, there's a reluctance to deviate from the standard of care which I think marries with the kind of legal environment doctors find themselves working within, the kind of prior environment. So lots of things at play there.Which is why I believe if we disaggregate into the hands of the consumer but equip them with the ability to interpret sensibly, that's where we have an opportunity to really transform things.

Yeah, I mean I, I, I understand the, the premise of it. I, my, my idea of what would be a situation that might benefit you would be something like if you could tie healthy breathing to healthy outcomes.I don't know if that information exists. I know that there's like a whole, you know, movement right now on healthy breathing, like sleep apnea, breathing through your nose.I don't know how to, to tie that information to, to your product, but I do know that there is like this, there's this renewed focus on the way that we breathe.And the, you know, I would be interested to know also, you know, if you are listening to somebody with asthma, for example, like how does that information either lead to a more healthy life for them?Like just because you know that you're going on undergoing an asthma attack and you use inhaler, is this something that would change somebody's behavior? Like how does, how does just the listening make their lives better?

Yeah, great question. And it is, it is sometimes a little bit of an abstruse linkage.So what, what, what most people don't see is that asthma attacks actually build up over weeks. I think we've all. You're a surgeon, so maybe not you so much, but most people have gotten accustomed to what you see on tv.Somebody's gasping for breath, they take an inhaler, they smile, everything is okay. So it makes you believe one, that there's an immediacy to an attack, but also that it's just big dramatic event that is clearly obvious to people.Some attacks, 90% of attacks, probably end up there being that dramatic heaving when it's really late. What studies have actually shown though, is that symptoms actually change weeks in advance.So that if you are able to develop a personal baseline for the person that tracks their lung sounds, breathing sounds, which we differentiate from lung sounds, heart rate activity, skin temperature, and put that together into one unique thing that matches that person's baseline, then when you're able to trend away from it, we can see far in advance removing that kind of perception that it's immediate. And what studies have actually shown is that people with really poor outcomes actually have very low perception, self awareness of their symptoms.So I'm a typical indicator of that.The fourth time I almost died from an asthma attack, I was 19 and knew everything about the world because of course I was 19 and my dad came home late one evening and he said to me, well, we need to take you to the er. My mom was home, my sister was home, nobody saw anything.He came in and as he was new to the situation, he said, okay, we're going to the ER because what had been happening is I had been steadily like getting worse, but I was making accommodations for it.So if you were with me for a day, you would not have noticed it got to the ER and I am in the ER and of course remember, 19, I know everything about the world. And the doctor is treating me and a car accident victim comes in, he's bleeding, he's bloody hand lying limp off the stretcher.And I said to the doctor, well, you know, I think you should go take care of him, 19, because you know, he's really close to death. So the doctor looked at me, he said, well, you are actually closer to death than he is, so I need you to let me treat you.So understand just how completely unaware I was of how bad my situation was. And that's why what we do is important.Because when we are able to say, hey, you are trending away from your baseline, we actually have a system of respiratory therapists and self management education that steps in and first alerts the person that they're trending away from their baseline and then prompts them by asking them, hey, what are we supposed to do when this happens?And so then you lead them through a series of steps that incorporate healthy breathing, the rescue meds, all of the removal of triggers, tracking of triggers, and that creates a beautiful system that really moves the patient forward in understanding of their condition.So really when we talk about our device, it's really part of a system that is focused on empowering the member and we call it our Nightingale Virtual Respiratory care system.That whole thing where the device provides early alerting, then we have a system that comes in and says, hey, this is what is happening and this is what you should do about it.

No, that's cool. I think that that's something that I can certainly see the, the need for asthma, for copd.Have you thought about any other sort of breathing related disorders like anxiety or, you know, any, any, anything that that would be outside of the realm of traditional respiratory diseases?

We've done a couple of, a few works in rare diseases like idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. Strange but true anxiety is. Well, maybe not so strange, but certainly true.People with asthma and COPD have more than twice the rates of anxiety as a normal population.So what we do is we also incorporate some behavioral health therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy into how we work with our people who use our system. Because that really plays a big difference.If you're saying that have we used our device as an anxiety aid or a way to train people on their breathing, certainly in the works right now. One of the keys about taking lots of funding from people is they want you to focus. So we have to be focused.

Yeah, I think that it's a genuinely A very innovative concept and it's.If you can get like the minute to minute or like second to second feedback from other apps, even like your heart rate and things like that, I think it would open up a, a huge amount of doors because, you know, we have the ability to measure heart rate.The ability to measure breathing has been like this thing that I, I've always thought as being difficult, but I never thought about the idea of lung sounds. You know, it's something that I think is, is really genius, just like you were saying. So, yeah, best of luck with all of that.I mean, I, I think that, you know, the idea of a whole body sensor would be so great for health care, you know, and I think that that's going to come from all these different points. Like you have now the, the pulse ox monitoring on the Apple Watch. You have, you know, continuous glucose monitoring.Breathing is, seems like a logical next step. So, so how's the, the funding going? Like, I know you have like a big event coming up. You want to tell me about that?

Yep. So just one thing I will add on to what you do.Just like you, we think the concept of the Buddy Hub is critical and actually our device is a mini computer. We actually process things on board the device instead of streaming to the cloud, which is a lot of what your Apple Watch and stuff does.So our vision has always been can we interconnect these sensors and use our processing power to really give people that data in real time and in real life, integrating all of the stuff that they're wearing. So lots of detail around that. But it was interesting that you mentioned that because we do believe that's the future as well. Yeah.So we are actually in a fundraising round right now. And true to our spirit of democratization of access, we have raised almost $1.5 million in this round of funding.We have raised almost $1.5 million from venture capital investors and we have also opened a round of funding on WE Funder where everyday investors can actually invest on the same terms as our VC investors so that everybody has access. And it's been a wonderful experience so far. We are raising on wefunder.com HCU yeah.

I saw the amount of people that are investing and I thought it was really impressive. And uh, I, I was actually looking into investing myself. But tell me a little bit of more about like, I, I don't know so much about WE Funder.Is this like, is this like, what are the, what are the incentives for, for someone that's like a non traditional investor like me.

Yep. So it, it's we funder is what I would.What is typically, typically called as a regulation crowdfunding platform, I like to call it a community funding platform. Because what we do is we build community by having everybody invest.So the people who would have invested in us before typically would be what is called an accredited investor or a venture capital investor. These are people who have very high net worth and can literally write checks.The accredited investors can write checks into you because whatever money they give you, they are okay with losing. That's fundamentally what you're doing when you're investing like that.Venture capital firms manage a pool of money where a lot of people like accredited investors have given that to experienced, savvy business people who understand what startups have a chance of winning and therefore they invest in you. So for many, many years it has been closed off to really high net worth individuals, big corporate arms, people who have lots of cash to deploy.And then in 2012, I want to say there was, the Jobs act was passed which allowed everyday investors, so not those who made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, I mean they still could, but everybody who had a little bit of money that they were prepared to invest in, supporting initiatives, impact investment, those things. They could invest in what is called a regulation crowdfunding platform. So there's still some protection.Their platforms like we funder vet companies like ours very seriously.We have to provide financials, we have to go through accounting reviews, some people have to do audits and you are actually sent through a due diligence process before you're allowed to list on their platform.But once you list on the platform, anybody who wants to invest in our case from as little as $100 and up can actually go to the platform and get to invest in the company. And they get shares in the company, they get the same terms as everybody else. And so we have over 400 investors who've joined us.But it's not just about funding. This has been a way for us to find our community. So I'd love to have you on board as an investor.We have ER doctors who've joined us and who are now on our board of advisors, financial people, people who understand really abstruse concepts in healthcare like you will understand this, right? Revenue cycle management. We have an expert in revenue cycle management who we can call on any time now because they're an investor.So not only is it a way to democratize access to funding for the individual, access to these game changing startups like us that can really give you an outsized return on investment. But really it is also about startups being able to find people who are and find a community. And for me, that has been, we've been very successful.We have a great team, we have great commercial milestones and are gaining traction every day. But that community aspect of it is really why I call it a community round and on board with us. We.

Can you tell a little bit about the. Can you tell us a little bit about the milestones that you've reached?

Yeah. So we have signed commercial deals.So the biggest deal that we have signed in terms of revenue is, is we are now the exclusive virtual respiratory care supplier for a purchasing coalition that manages 400,000 lives. So when we think about that, fully deployed, that's contracted $5.5 million of annual recurring revenue.But the other thing that we are very proud of is that the Asthma and Allergy foundation of America, so the leading entity for advocate for people with asthma in the country, has chosen us to roll out our program in Texas to people in underserved zip codes.And so the combination of this huge entity that has said, hey, we want you to be our exclusive virtual respiratory care supplier with the leading advocate for people with asthma in the country saying, hey, we want you to roll out to Texas and we will pay you for this. I think it's an unbeatable combination and it's why I tell people there really has never been a better time to invest.We're going to be announcing two more deals in July and August and having. It's just really, we're fully de risked from a technology perspective. And now it's just about scaling and traction. So you're seeing that every day.We have now 15 patents awarded, 10 pending. It's just really a great time to get on board where you're not taking any of the early risks that earlier investors did.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. I, like I said, I've been thinking about the idea of monitoring breathing for a long time, especially because of this renewed focus on breathing.I think that this is something that, you know, it's very difficult to quantify. You know, my, my background is in, is in surgery and we do a lot of like corrective surgery for sleep apnea.And I just, I see the, I see the vision and, and all the best. I don't know anybody else that's monitoring breathing. Do, I mean, do you have any direct competitors at all?

We have some fast followers in the device space who still focus only on device, not on transforming care outcomes. Best of luck. To them, we know that what we do is superior. We know we were the first to do it in the world. And it's a huge market.In Asmon COPD alone, it's 690 million people. So I think there's lots of space for people to play.Of course I'm biased, but I know what we have is truly unique, defensible from an IP position and really making a difference already, whereas a lot of people are not really focused on making that difference. Yeah, it's not science for the sake of science.

Can you tell me a little bit about like the other companies that you've, you said you, you had worked in the past in this space and how that turned out.

So me personally.

Yeah, I think that you had.

Yeah, this is my first healthcare venture actually. And I did it because I have asthma. I've had it all my life.And as I said before, lots of the traditional things did not work for me and it took me 25 years to learn how to live well with it. Five near death experiences.So now I tell people we help people learn how to live well with it in two years or less, most people within six to nine months.But this really is the culmination of everything that I've learned in a career where I have, this is the fourth technology that I've, fourth innovation that I've successfully commercialized. I built two factories in my previous career. I managed an innovation portfolio of over $100 million in deployment.And then, strange but true, I have patents and have deployed a technology that is the only working technology in the sustainability space that deconstructs biomass at scale. That sounds fancy. What it means is we take natural materials and turn them into the building blocks of everything that we make from oil.And I was, I was part of the team that developed, but I led the team that developed and commercialized that technology.And what I say to people is a lifetime of, for 20 plus years spent deploying technology, building technology and then helping teams use technology has really taught me a lot about what it takes for technology to work, what it takes for technology to be accepted, what it takes for technology to be used, and what it takes for it to make a difference. And those are all very discrete things and the kinds of teams you need to build along the way.And so while I sound like I've had a very cool career, which I have, I tell people it was all preparing me for this.This is the thing that I want to do for the rest of my life where we help people bring this to bear and Understanding the skill sets that we need to do to get people where they need to be. Because we say it all the time, and it's trite, but it's true. When you can't breathe, nothing else matters.And for me, this is personal because I have many family members with breathing problems, too. And that ability to take away that anxiety of wondering where the next breath is coming from, I think is the best thing that I can do with my time.

No, that's awesome.The reason why I wanted to bring up your past is because I wanted to frame my next question, which is like, where do you see healthcare technology going? Because I think that this idea of your history and now you're in this space, you probably have a different insight than maybe I do.So, like, the way that I look at it, I look at it as we're in a period of stagnation, to be quite honest with you, from the academic setting, from the medical setting, you know, to. To. To bring something to market as a drug.I mean, you have to have millions of dollars to go through all of the rounds of randomized clinical trials and everything like that.Even if you were to come up with, like, a different procedure for surgery using the same type of methods that other people have used, there's a lot of pushback to something like that. Unless you're doing things in a prescribed way. How do you feel about it?Because I, you know, if you were to talk to Peter Thiel, he would agree with me. He would say that we're in this period of, you know, stagnation, that we need to break out of it, we need to resist out of it.And then if you were to talk to other people, you know, that we're in this period of massive innovation. I feel like I see both sides. How do you feel?

Like you. I see both sides. I think we should address the elephant in the room around AI and what that brings. Right.I feel like there is massive innovation happening. There is a disconnect between the ability to get that information accepted by providers and really used in a way that's meaningful for the system.I think there are many drivers to why both sides are inefficient. I will say that I think we have to change the framing around which we allow physicians to accept technology.And that's probably a deeper conversation. But I do see both sides.I think there are some pockets of breakthrough happening, but in US Healthcare, certainly something has to be done for startups around the ability to get paid for trials so that investors see a return on their dollar and something has to be done to remove the burden from physicians around what does this mean for them? And how can I just make it through the 15 minutes that I'm allowed to see this person? Right.And something has to happen in the middle that makes those two come together. Because there's a statistic out there that is scary for people like me.But it takes 25 years for most medical innovations to become mainstream in terms of accepted by the majority of physicians.And while our model doesn't depend on that, I think it's really providing our physicians with very little meaningful growth if they are not allowed to be a part of the movement. But how we structure the framework that allows them to do it so that they're not burdened by legalities.Worried about people suing them, worried about prior authorizations, worried about all the administrative stuff. You signed on to care for people. I'm quite sure, like most physicians, most of what you do is administrative.So I feel like if we can bridge the gap for physicians will be most of the way there. But I do see both sides.

Yeah, I mean, I think that AI is kind of like this thing that is just entering the market right now. I think that everybody's talking about it. Obviously. You know, Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google, he says it's the most significant innovation since fire or electricity or things like that. And, and I hope that that's accurate. And would you be able to do something like this without AI?Like, I know that this is something that you've incorporated into your own product, but I feel like that to me, is this hopefully catalyst that will cause a lot of innovation, a lot of different fields.

Yes.So we have always incorporated some level of AI, which is why I also say my co founder is a genius because we were doing it before most people understood it was cool. But the. I think, I think yes, it is a catalyst. I think the key is going to be I'll just base it.Maybe I'm being too narrow in my focus, but I hate doing mundane things every day. I understand every role, a little bit of drudgery must fall. Right.But I mean, if I take my, if I put my type of Persona into a physician or a surgeon, do you, you really enjoy taking notes? Do you really enjoy telling people the same thing every day when you know they're not in a position to receive it?So it goes in one ear and out the other. Right. Those are not the things that bring you joy, the things that bring you Joy is when you're able to actually make a difference.And so I feel that is where we need to use AI to bridge the gap. And that is where I see the promise of AI in our use case. It is about how we deliver the education as well as monitor the person.So you are the physician or the primary care physician isn't in the office handing out pamphlets telling people about their meds in 15 minutes or 10 minutes or 5 minutes and then they go out the door and you know you're going to see them in a week later. In your case, it's not about you giving pre op instructions.That is just a generic thing that isn't personalized to the individual and being frustrated that you have no time to actually spend with them.So, so where I see the AI impetus and the AI impact happening is if we can remove that type of everyday drudgery from the lives of people, it really frees up everybody. Like you like me to do higher order things, right? And I don't think AI is higher order just yet. It is really just a bunch of things.We are building a higher order thing. But I think there's room to get there. That's what I see right now is going to be the key.Can we free up all of this human potential that is lost in doing drudgery? I just had surgery a few days ago and I had six people coming to my room.Each obviously clearly had to do what they had to do, but they asked me the same questions and they could see that I had answered the questions before, but they had to and there's room to really take all of that away. And maybe if you freed our minds from the fact that we had to enter these notes or we had to do this and there was something that you could trust.Not saying we can trust all AI just yet, something that you could trust to do that. What could we as humans really then do when we freed up all of this brain power to focus on higher order stuff?So that's where I see it being the short term.

Do you think culture has caught up yet though? Because I, I, I, I was watching this, this pitch for a company of automated postoperative calls.So you call a patient and then you make sure that they're doing well, that they don't have any significant post operative issues. And that's usually done by a person.And this company was rolling out something for AI and you know, I get, I get like so many phone calls from people or feedback from patients that say that, you know, like they really Appreciate that extra phone call afterwards. And when it, when it doesn't happen, like, let's say, you know, the staff forgets to call them, then they.I'm like, they are the first person in line to tell me that this is something that is like, totally unacceptable.But I wonder if, if you were getting a phone call from someone and it was an AI versus an actual person, there's still that sense that, like, oh, this is an actual person giving that extra touch. Or it could be in not an issue. How do you feel about that?

That's a good question. So it really is about cultural norms, right? So I don't think anybody has built an empathetic AI just yet.But I do know that they're getting much better in terms of the ability to fool you into thinking it's a person.

So.

I think it'll depend. Like anything else, it's going to take years before 100% of people or even 90% of people accept it.I do think it's suited for 5 to 10% of people probably like me, the early adopters out there, who probably will not mind it as long as in the background I'm aware that there is some human oversight or that in the background there is some risk triaging that was done.So say, for instance, mine was a textbook case and everything was oki and you assure me that everything was okay, then I'm okay to have that kind of automated, intelligent conversation. If I feel for any reason that I'm different, which I kind of am, I wouldn't want that to be an AI as my first touch point after.I might be happy to go through a chat experience and then get connected to someone, but I still would want that degree of human oversight.So I think it's going to take a while, but culturally, some people might be ready for it, and it depends on the experience, which is again, where I think we have that really beautiful opportunity with AI to personalize to the individual. Because you can look at behavioral cues, you can look at history and say, hey, this person is not ready for AI.But it's a really great use of my human resource to make this person comfortable, get that star rating, get that really good review and decision making. Triaging like that and risk profiling, I think is where we can really put AI to good use.

Thanks for sharing us this insight. We're getting close to the end of our episode where I always ask my guests some general questions about how they feel about the future.The first of which is, where do you gain your inspiration for this type of thing.I know we talked a little bit about your past history, but specifically the technology, space and, you know, building something that will outlast you, that will make the world a better place. For me, it's science fiction. I look at utopian science fiction as something that is really cool and really inspiring. But what about for you, Sharon?

For me, it has been about what does it continue to be? I think it's. I know it's challenge. There's no better way to get me to do something than by telling me I can't do it.But also, it really is my personal experience.I was fortunate enough to have a doctor who believed me when I said meds weren't working, who would see my parents when they couldn't necessarily afford to pay him. And I feel like so much of the world isn't allowed that privilege. That really, that is what keeps. That's my North Star. That's what keeps me going.If I could replicate that caring for everyone and those good outcomes for everyone just in a shorter space of time, that would be great. But I will admit I have been.My career has been checkered by the fact that a lot of people have told me I couldn't do something and then I went ahead and did it. So I tell people I don't need a coach, I need a nemesis. So that's what drives me.

Unfortunately, no, I think rivalry or some sort of competition is important. I think that that's something that definitely can bring out the best in people. Cool. Very interesting to hear that perspective.What about specifically healthcare technology, wearables? Like, where do you see this in 10 years?Do you think that this is going to be massive adoption and everybody's going to be doing it, or is it going to be still just a niche or just in general about this space? Where do you see it going in 10 years?

In 10 years, I think we will have a consumer, or even now, but really more so we'll have a consumer who demands more. Right. We'll have Gen Z and millennials making up the majority of the purchasing decision makers.And they have learned that you don't need to have gatekeepers around content and information. So I think there will be a pull towards wanting more of that data, owning more, controlling the gatekeeping.And really only reference, and that's for me, is I don't think wearables will be niche anymore. I don't think we'll have the health care system that we have anymore because we'll be pulled in a different direction.There's a huge Huge wave coming of people who are accustomed to getting the content that they want, when they want it. And that's going to seep into healthcare.

I hope so.I mean, I think that the idea of everything that we're saying is really great and I think that doctors really should be more utilized for interventional issues rather than just keeping track of people. I think that's a natural function of artificial intelligence and just big data.But I don't know if like, I definitely am in the minority of like, people who do not have diabetes, who are wearing a glucose monitor. Even though that's been around for like three, four years now. Every time people see it, they're like, why, why are you wearing that?You know, it's something that's very different. So I, I, I think that, you know, the, if I were to look at market share, you know, that I would hope that it continues to increase.I just personally don't have any sort of insight on that. So I hope that you're right.

Yeah. And I guess it just depends because I do see a lot more people.Like, you're probably in the last month, you're probably the fourth person I've talked to, which I know is a small sample, but it's an indication of a trend who's actually wearing a glucose monitor. And they're not diabetic, but it gives them real insight into their body's response.So I think it's just about different markets and penetration and I, I might be getting different servings because I'm in this space already.

So. Last question.Aside from wearables, healthcare technology, a lot of the stuff that you're working on day to day, there are breakthroughs happening in every scientific field. There's lots of different interesting things happening, like robots, space technology, all sorts of stuff.Aside from what you're working, what are you super interested in? For me, it's personal robotics. I can't wait till I have a robot butler where I can watch my, wash my dishes and fold my clothes.But what about for you, Sharon?

Oh, I, I have a real, just because of my, my last startup experience, but also I, I just really believe that sustainability is where I'm most excited about. And this is not a comment on climate change not going down any political roads.What I will say is that this democratization of access to energy by giving every population in the world the ability to get their own energy, make their own energy from the things around them, whatever that may be, is going to dramatically transform society, even beyond AI, and lift many people out of situations that they find themselves in. So for me, that is what I look forward to. Democratization, sustainability, making better use of the resources that we have.But really democratization of energy and what that means.

Yeah, I think that you're making the case for fusion. There's like a.

Well, there's a lot of this well, there's a lot of work in personal fusion which I find interesting and scary.But also the last technology I did things like that where you can take wood waste materials and really build all of the things that you could from oil. It's game changing. This is not saying anything bad about fossil fuels. I fly planes, I have a phone. I'm not.But I believe that the ability to deconstruct that supply chain and make it disaggregated is going to be game changing.And whether that's through nuclear, which I'm not against nuclear plants, personal nuclear is interesting and good, but it's going to be fission, fusion, all the other things that are going on. Just that whole space to me is interesting.We say a lot about AI, but think about what democratization of access to energy means for billions of people around the world. That's game changing.

I totally agree. I think that that's going to be the next frontier that we conquer. So very interesting to speak with you.Thank you so much for joining us and thank you so much to our listeners who are joining us on a regular basis. We would really appreciate, if you like and subscribe, hit that button on the bottom and as always, we will see you in the future. Thanks everybody.